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lil_shepherd
It's been an odd week.

The death of leni_jess came as a real blow. I wonder if she got a chance to read the copy of Dragonhaven I passed on to her, and I wish, wish, wish she'd read my copy of the latest Cherryh Foreigner book or taken it with her, because now she'll never read it... nor come back next year to do all the things we didn't do because of the weather and, well, new puppy. I am sitting here drinking coffee from one of the two beautiful mugs she gave us and missing her.

I went to see The Avengers again and this time took some notes (in the dark, though I was not, like Coulson, wearing sunglasses at night.) Will have to re-write a small bit of Falling into the Void Together because wrong timing of events. This story I'm writing for the cap_ironman big bang is one of those strange things where bits come to me and not in chronological order, so it's rather like a jigsaw. I've written stories from beginning to end (often with no assurance I know where they're taking me) from end to beginning and, on one memorable occasion, worked out from the middle. I wasn't expecting this to be a jigsaw... Furthermore, while I intended it to be a take on what might happen after the movie, given the political situation and my take on the characters, bits of 616 are sliding into it. Not that this bothers me because, hey, all these universes are AUs anyway... I read a fanfic the other day tagged Avengers (2012) and Avengers - comics and found precisely one line in it that might relate to the movie universe. The rest was pure 616: Tony attempting to explain to a reporter why he was not responsible for Ultron, and how the familial relationships involving that robot were, in the words of Richard Armour "strained and numerous." (Hank Pym created Ultron modelling the robot on his own brain patterns, and one of the 'brides' of Ultron, Jocasta, has brain patterns modelled on Jan Van Dyne/Pym, while Ultron created the Vision whose brain patterns were modelled on Simon Williams who had loved Wanda Maximoff who married the Vision... and that's just the start.) I found it funny, but I doubt that anyone who was only familiar with the movies would understand more than one word in three.

Bren has itches (though not from fleas - probably adolescent spots) and has drawn blood under his forelegs. He is such a good puppy, though, and his recall is becoming reliable. It's very funny watching him and Draco. They play-fight and Bren knocks Draco over because he is three times the weight and does not realise it, so Draco grabs his cheek or his ear. Yet if anything comes close to threatening his damn!puppy, Draco will go for it.

Deeply fed up with event!summer. Will watch the river pageant on TV though because, hell, nothing like this has occurred since the 1600s.

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Deep sympathy for the loss of your friend, although I am glad you have good memories of her. I hope the good memories provide some comfort for the loss.

Very sorry to hear about your friend. I hope you have many good memories of her.

Leni was a stalwart of Harry Potter fandom. Ina knew her on-line before I did, but she used to come over from Oz every year for a long vacation, usually with her brother. For the last three years she has stayed with us for a period of that vacation, and a nicer house-guest you could not wish to meet. She, like me, was a fan of McKillip and Cherryh and McKinley.

She stayed with us and then flew back to Oz. We got a message from her saying she was back - then her brother and sister came on line to say she had had a heart attack, been taken into hospital for a routine procedure, but failed to recover. There has been much sorrow over in HP fandom.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. *hugs*


It was a shock, because we had been her last port of call in the UK, and she had flown back to Australia only a few days before she had a heart attack, then was taken into hospital.

She, like inamac my best friend, was a stalwart of Harry Potter fandom but she was an SF fan too. I was very fond of her.

So sorry to hear about your friend, Lil. That must have come as a horrible shock to both you and Ina.

It was a shock, as we'd only seen her off back to Oz a few days before. Ina had been friends with her for longer, as they were both in Harry Potter fandom while I'd only skirted the edges of it, but she'd become a regular summer visitor.

So sorry to hear about your friend. It can be very hard when it happens so suddenly, without time to prepare for the loss.

She wasn't young and wasn't well, but once the journey home had gone well, you sort of expect things to go on as before...

My condolences on your loss. It's somehow worse when you just saw the person a few days ago and they were fine; one of my friends had been to dinner with Hal Clement the day before his death. I'm glad Leni had relatives who would take thought for her online communities.

On a cheerier note, I've now seen The Avengers, and your story still fits right in. If I were going to pick a ship for Stark, though, it would be Bruce Banner rather than Steve Rogers -- the sparks there were almost palpable.

A lot of new fans feel that way ... but I didn't get that at all. What I got was Stark a) pissing everyone off as best he could and b) going in hard to get Bruce on his side by laying on the flattery (possibly also an attempt to get Dr Banner working for Stark Industries) and Bruce being a) nice to everyone because he has to be and b) bonding with, and defending, Steve as well as Tony, by whom he is impressed and amused, but of whom he is quietly wary. And Steve and Tony spending the last third of the movie working together. As usual, I find the use of first names interesting... no-one calls Bruce "Bruce" except Natasha when she is trying to stop him becoming the Hulk (and that doesn't work because Bruce does not trust Natasha), the only person who calls Tony "Tony" (on the team) is Steve, and the only person who calls Steve "Steve" is Bruce.

Mainly, however, it's being a comics fan first and foremost. Bruce and Betty (Ross) were married for years and years and Bruce's relationship with Betty in the movie universe is solid, Hulk (and almost certainly Bruce) currently hates Stark for killing his (Hulk's) alien wife and kids (if sort-of accidentally), neither Tony nor Steve have ever married - though both have come close, though not with any character who has so far appeared in the movieverse - and have been close friends like forever, in all the universes in which they both appear. (They are even married in one universe where it is the Iron Woman - a lady called Natasha Stark.) Their relationship, whether of love or anger (and they've been through both many times) is always passionate. Here it is complicated by having Howard Stark be part of both Project Rebirth and the expeditions to find Captain America. Tony gives himself away over that with one line in this movie, spoken to Bruce, and Bruce basically responds defending Steve.

Also, Hulk has left the Avengers (at least for some time) in every universe in which he has appeared so far except the cute-and-cuddly Marvel Adventures: Avengers but the Captain America and Iron Man relationship is central to every version. While the movie verse is separate, Joss Whedon has indicated that the relationship between Iron Man and Captain America is central to the Avengers in that universe too.

Not much to say about Leni, other than she'll be missed sorely. I am glad for her, though, that she stayed with you and Ina and had a great time. She was doing something she loved, travelling, seeing good fandom friends...

*sighs* Yeah, she'll be missed.

On a happier note, I find it amusing that Draco has become Bren-possessive. He really lives up to his name, LDD.

Oh, and interesting comment you made about S/T being the passionate, canon relationship. It makes sense, not that it will keep me from Bruce/Tony, though. :) But something to consider for me, despite.

Steve and Tony have had their disagreements (see: Armour Wars, the Superhero Civil War) but when comic book characters talk, quite literally, about each other in terms of "azure eyes", "I've missed your smiling face", "he's wonderful" and "he's perfect" and offer their lives for each other on a semi-regular basis and are referred to by their team-mates as "Mom and Dad" "brothers" "blood brothers" ... Tony spoke about Steve's death (to his body) as the "one thing that I can't bear to happen" and referred to him at his 'true' funeral (he'd broken down completely at the official one), with only the remaining founding Avengers present, as "my rudder." (A recent artist, appointed to an Avengers mag, reported that "I'm going to draw Iron Man standing really close to Captain America as often as possible because he's got this huge man-crush on him..." provoking yelps of "It's canon!")

Then there's the older comics fanfic, by Dixon & Seanchai, Muccamuckk, Valtyr, and Tsukinofaerii, among others, which is just plain brilliant.

I love Ruffalo's version of Banner, by far the best we've yet seen, though I'm not sure if you can script a good Hulk or a good Banner away from a big supporting cast but his reserve is, to me, very obvious. (And, of course, his girlfriend, if taken from the last movie, looks like Liv Tyler and is as brilliant as he is...)

As for RDJ's Tony Stark - well, most of what he says is malicious, he prefers his robots to people, and he's forever probing for weakness. He's also incredibly lonely and has Daddy issues to hell and gone. Add that to comics Tony's control issues plus a nod to that character's alcoholism (and guess who was the one character who tried to help him through that), which he also shares, and you've got a very, very prickly and difficult personality.

Oh, I agree. I've begun reading through what I could get my hands on of comics, and it's obvious that it's full-fledged somewhat-more-than-bromance between S&T (and couldn't the authors just have stopped being cowardly and let the two marry in that alternate universe?).

Luckily fanfics are not bound. I mean... I'm in a fandom where people ship Snape with Potter, and as for me, Snape with Lucius who is happily married with Narcissa.

I've just read three Loki/Tony fics that were recced to me, and two of them left me WTF!Does not compute or make sense, but the last... OMG! It made so much sense and it kept both characters close to (film) canon, absolutely brilliant explanation for their relationship. No cuddly!redeemed!Loki in sight. I suppose it depends on the author's ability to draw the picture right, so to speak.

I'd take Liv Tyler any time, too, but film!Banner does not have that opportunity. :P

Not meaning to diss your ship, but it is one I don't really see in the movie. In fact, I don't see any ships in the movie at all, not even Natasha/Clint which is comics canon, though not for about 40 years of real time (and which Whedon has stated is not movie canon.)

Betty/Bruce is, of course, both comic and movie canon as is Pepper/Tony (which has not, until very, very recently, been comics canon.) Thor/Jane (or, to be more precise, Don Blake/Jane) was comics canon for a long time, until Odin made Jane a goddess and she couldn't hack it, and since then it has been Thor/Sif as, indeed, it should be. I'm happy with Thor/Jane in movie canon, because I adore movie Jane.

Any Loki ship has me going "Whatttt?" unless it is Lady Loki seducing someone by magic(canon). Of course, current Loki is a kid...

Ah, it's not my ship. The only ships I have, as in "OTPs-do-not-mess-with-them-ever!" are Snucius and Moody/Draco. I just find the pairing interesting and hot.

And you could argue that there are no relationships going on in the film except for Pepper/Tony, but it is rather clear that Banner and Tony do have a lot in common, and what comes out of it, friendship or more... that is up to the author.

But fandom would be boring if we all agreed. :)

The Avengers does not stand alone.

You've got to remember that the "marvel movie universe" or "universe 199999" includes both Iron Man films, Captain America: the First Avenger, Thor and certainly The Incredible Hulk and possibly Hulk plus the two shorts included on the DVDs, mainly featuring Coulson, plus the short comic book series set in that universe. (And which gives some credence to Clint/Coulson.)

Tony, of course, (in all universes) has no friends except employees and other superheroes. His canonical friends are Happy Hogan (chauffeur and occasionally bodyguard), Pepper (PA and, in the movieverse, CEO. Married to Happy for a long time in comics) and Jim Rhodes (Air Force liaison in the movies, Stark Industries test pilot in the comics.) There are also a number of SI (or "whatever Tony is calling his company this month") employees who are/have been his friends but most of 'em are dead or in prison. (Or, in one case, in a hospital bed after his (male) lover turned out to be the Spymaster and it is quite possible that Matt Fraction is going to kill Tony - no doubt temporarily - in the next couple of issues. They have a habit of doing this. Thor was dead for a while within a few months of Thor coming out, and replaced by an ex-villain. When Captain America came out he was not the one carrying the shield, and when Iron Man debuted the comics were in the middle of the Civil War and Tony was being, to put it mildly, a fascist pig. His close friends among the superheroes are Cap, Thor, and Ms Marvel. Even the women in his life are either employees (Bethany) or business partners (Rumiko.)

I know. I watched the other films as well. It's just this one that woke the fanperson up. :)

When I was considerably younger, Hulk had his own monthly magazine here, and I think I've read most of those, together with a part of other Marvel&DC heroes. Don't know how connected the Hulk-zines were to the various Marvel-verses, though. The thing is that the canon versions are so many and the characters pop up in so many incarnations that it is more or less impossible to navigate. Kudos (sorry, couldn't help it) to those who can and have the time. And even if I had, I'd stick to the parts that does it for me if I write more than the short PWP and the Coulson/Clint I'm working on.

But I certainly look forward to what you come up with for S&T in the future.

I have to admit that most of my knowledge is old. I started with Fantasic Four #9 in 1962 and collected Marvel comics until the mid 1970s, and have popped in and out since then.

There are only three main continuities - and 616 is the main one. I dislike Ultimates intensely and try to ignore it. (Hulk is cannibal there, for starters.) I don't know the family friendly Marvel Adventures very well but adore the fan fic.

Other than that, the universes are one-offs or limited series or TV cartoons.

A cannibal? Oh, my. I think we might have read more or less the same stories, that is if the DK Hulk mag featured the US stories, and they probably did. I'm a few years later than you, though, around 1970-.

Thanks for informing me. I'll try to read the three main lines and leave the rest, it seems to be the sensible way to go on about it. Might be that Adventures is the place to reacquaint myself with the entire universe for a start.

Marvel Adventures is, for want of a better word, sweet.

Some of the fan fic for Iron Man Noir which features a sort of Indiana Jones style Iron Man set around 1940 is fantastically good.

Edited at 2012-06-04 08:40 pm (UTC)

Oh, and everyone is a bastard in Ultimates. Everyone.

*grins* Okay, I might need to read that one anyway. Just regard it as crack and go on from there...

Thanks for the Iron Man Noir rec - do you have any recs for fics? Sounds really good (and as an idea I'd like to explore, too).

Personal favourite: Look here, Look Back, Look Ahead by marinarusalka

http://archiveofourown.org/works/160223


Indelible by Penumbren contains a lot of stuff from 616 canon, but its sequel, A Long Hard Road is all Noir.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/128710



A Window in the Sky by Manic Intent on the other hand, is pure Noir/Golden Age Captain America

http://archiveofourown.org/works/161082



And Manic Intent also wrote The Tower of Yesterday, which has Noir Tony as the person who woke up in the future.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/152513



Marvellous! No pun intended...

I'll go bookmark immediately. Thank you so much! <3

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